Wednesday, January 13, 2010

Pastor Tim Keller on Creation, Evolution, and Christian Laypeople


Last month the folks at BioLogos have posted a real thoughtful essay by Pastor Tim Keller on the issue of creation and evolution. You can find it here.

4 comments:

Robert said...

Hello Frank,

In another thread I argued against Jason Engwer from Triablogue who was questioning your salvation. Now I noticed on the TRIABLOGUE site that they are again unfairly and wrongly attacking you. A person named Patrick Chan over at Triablogue had posted: “Of God, and of the Holy Trinity” which cites an article by Paul Helm a calvinist philosopher which responds to some false ideas about the Trinity. The person’s name whom Helm is responding to is ***ROGER*** BECKWITH.

But Patrick Chan obviously out to attack you, ignored that it was Roger Beckwith and not yourself and yet he cites the PDF article as Paul Helm responding **to you**! This is sad as it shows yet again that the people over at Triablogue are **desperate** to attack you in any way possible. They found an attack by a prominent calvinist against a person with your last name (Beckwith) and cite it intending to question and attack your views on the Trinity. In the past I have read some material that you have written on the Trinity and it was completely orthodox and Christian.

I just wanted you to be aware of this latest attempt by Triablogers to attack you. It seems they will go to any length to do so.

Robert

PS- what will be interesting now is to see if there is a retraction and **public apology** for this latest unfair attack. As the source is the Triablogers I doubt it.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Actually I just checked the blog again, before posting this and found that they have changed the heading!

Here is the citation as it appears earlier at Triablogue when first posted:

WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 13, 2010
"Of God, and of the Holy Trinity"
Paul Helm responds to Francis Beckwith (PDF).
Labels: Catholicism, Doctrine of God, Francis Beckwith, Hays, Patrick Chan, Paul Helm, Roman Catholicism
POSTED BY PATRICK CHAN AT 3:39 PM 0 COMMENT(S) LINKS TO THIS POST

And here is how it now reads:

Wednesday, January 13, 2010
"Of God, and of the Holy Trinity"

Paul Helm responds to Roger Beckwith (PDF).
Labels: Doctrine of God, Hays, Patrick Chan, Paul Helm


posted by Patrick Chan at 3:39 PM 0 comment(s) links to this post

It is interesting that they quickly changed it realizing their mistake. But that does not change the fact that it was originally an intentional attack intended against you and it was publicaly posted even if for a short time. I share this with you to encourage you to avoid interactions with these people.

Robert said...

Hello again Frank,

Thanks for posting the Keller article it is a very good article and as you say thought provoking.

Robert

Matthew D. Schultz said...

Robert, perhaps it was just an honest mistake. I don't really see evidence of invidious motives here.

In any case, Keller's essay will be an interesting read.

Robert said...

Matthew wrote:

“Robert, perhaps it was just an honest mistake. I don't really see evidence of invidious motives here.”

We may disagree, but I have reasons for believing that it was no honest mistake.

First, the post appeared on “Triablogue”. That alone should set off all sorts of red warning lights as the authors on that blog regularly and repeatedly engage in all sorts of attacks upon others who disagree with their theology. Second, as was discussed here, Jason Engwer one of the Triablogers publicly posted on whether or not Frank Beckwith is saved or not. Third, recently, the Triablogers have been **particularly focused upon attacking Catholicism and Catholic apologists. So they are currently attacking Catholicism and Catholic writers, they singled out Frank Beckwith questioning his salvation, and then Lo and behold another Triabloger posts on FRANK BECKWITH and the TRINITY! Just a coincidence?

Now this especially captured my attention as I have personally read things written by FRANK Beckwith specifically dealing with the Trinity (and his writings have all been thoroughly orthodox). So I know he is orthodox on the Trinity, I know the Triablogers have been attacking Catholics of late on their blog, I know they had the gall to publicly question Frank Beckwith’s salvation (which was itself a personal attack on Beckwith), and now another Triabloger JUST HAPPENS TO POST referring to Paul Helm’s article dealing with a Beckwith with false views on the Trinity (that seemed especially odd to me: why would Paul Helm be attacking Frank Beckwith on his views on the Trinity? When Chan first posted he specifically referred to Frank Beckwith. That doesn’t make any sense at all which is why I was immediately suspicious about the purpose of this posting by Chan.) So I did a quick scan of the article referred to by Chan, and find that Helm is attacking the beliefs of a **different** Beckwith on the Trinity! Also on Chan’s original posting it includes the following:

“Labels: Catholicism, Doctrine of God, Francis Beckwith, Hays, Patrick Chan, Paul Helm, Roman Catholicism”

Why is Chan citing a Helm’s article against “Beckwith” and the labels include “Catholicism”, “Francis Beckwith” “Hays” and “Roman Catholicism”?

Do you expect me to believe that the Triablogers just happened to bring up another Beckwith’s errors on the Trinity accidentally mistaking them for Frank Beckwith’s views on the Trinity (which are completely orthodox)? And anyone **actually** reading the article would see that it was not dealing with FRANK Beckwith at all.

For what purpose were they bringing this up? Considering that Frank Beckwith’s views on the Trinity are **completely orthodox**.

And if they really **knew** Frank Beckwith’s views on the Trinity (which are completely orthodox) for what reason would they bring up a post by Helm attacking “Beckwith” for holding false views on the Trinity?

The late Walter Martin was a friend of mine and if I saw someone post an article on a blog challenging Walter’s views on the Trinity I would immediately know that something was up because Walter’s views are completely orthodox. Now if someone with a real axe to grind against Walter, say a Jehovah’s Witness, posted an article challenging the views of a different Martin while attributing them to Walter, I would know it was no “honest mistake”.

Likewise considering the current and repeated attacks by the Triablogers against Catholicism and specifically against Frank Beckwith it does not appear to be an honest mistake. Earlier they were attacking him by questioning his salvation, now they were attempting to attack him by attributing false views on the Trinity to him. Consider the source: the Triablogers are an intensely hostile group attacking anything and everything that differs with their theological views, and presently their sights are directed at Frank Beckwith and the Catholic Church.

Robert